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RAW's championship, a new championship!

Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/09 Mon 6:32 pm

Originally posted by Americancyco
Ok I will agree with you on the name dropping of Harley race and Race only.  Since he is the only name clearly mentioned as wearing the title belt that didn't.

But all the WWF has to say is this belt once represented the NWA title which was held by Race, blah blah blah and they are covered.

As far as WWF sueing WCW over Hall & Nash there is a major differance.  WCW was playing off of WWF intellicetual <sp> property which was clearly making them money.  If the WWF plays off the NWA it's not going to make them any extra money.  the NWA name doesn't have any rewal clout, like the WWF name did/does back when they sued WCW.  The NWA name isn't worth anything to the WWF.


It doesn't matter if you think or don't think the NWA name is worth anything nowadays. That's completely irrelevant. It's the principle of the whole thing.

Legally, what they're doing is wrong. By flat out saying that Triple H's championship is the same championship held by Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race, and a bunch of other former NWA champions, they're making it out to be something that it isn't and as having a history that it doesn't. We're not talking about belts here, we're talking about actual titles! No, they may not be making any money off of it, but they're definetely instilling something in the minds of the fans that is totally false.

If WWE owned the NWA trademark (and by association, it's title history) they would be legally entitled to say whatever they wanted. But the fact is, they DON'T own it. Pro Wrestling Organization, LLC does. It's theirs, and so is the heritage of the championship. It all falls under intellectual property.

Let me ask you this, if YOU owned the NWA (rights to it's trademarks, titles, history, etc.) would you appreciate it if WWE or some other company started making false claims about their title by saying it is directly linked to yours, shares a history with it, and in fact, it's champion is the rightful heir to it? I don't think you would, especially if their lies and propaganda caused people to actually believe it! It could cause confusion about who the real deal is and might make them start to look at you as a fraud when you're not.

THAT'S why I think the NWA should sue WWE. They're taking something that belongs to it (the names associated with the history of their championship, i.e. intellectual property) and is deliberately using them to pollute the minds of the fans into thinking that their "world championship" was actually held by those men when it was not. It's no different than Bischoff bringing in Hall and Nash and deliberately having the fans think that they were "invaders" from the WWF when they really weren't. Same ballpark.
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Postby JustS2pendous » 2002/09/10 Tue 4:40 am

The difference is althought hte WWE is infringing on the NWA's trademark and right, no arguements from me there, it's not directly harming the competition. The NWA:TNA promotion itself lists the first NWA Champion of the TNA era as Ken Shamrock. So in itself, it is choosing not to promote or acknowledge it's own lineage so the WWE isn't directly harming the competion. Yet.
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/10 Tue 1:34 pm

If we were to be exact, NONE of the NWA champions are connected to that belt because it's a replica :P but we're talking about representation I know.

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Postby Americancyco » 2002/09/10 Tue 3:15 pm

Dan I think you're missing my point. The WWE is not costing the NWA any money. They are not claiming a title they don't own and even if the claimed their new title (triple H's) was conected to the NWA title I still don't see what the NWA would get from sueing them.

They aren't gonna get any money from the WWE because the WWE isn't hurting the NWA in anyway to cost it money (at least not in any way the NWA can prove). The most the NWA could ever hope for is a judge to say "Bad WWE stop making such claims. Stop making people think your new title is the same as the NWA title, without ever mentioning the name."

What this would cost the NWA in court fees is not even close to what they would get out of it should they win the case.

As for what value I think the NWA name has, wasn't the point. The point was WCW was playing off the WWF name clearly and no one can argue the value of the WWF name at the time of the case. A lot of people could argue the value of the NWA name at this time. The WWF needed to prove that WCW was making money off of the WWF name in an illegal way. The NWA would have to do the same thing, which it could never do.

But then again this is pro wrestling and name me one promoter that hasn't lied, mislead the fans or twisted the truth to fit himself and his group.
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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/11 Wed 2:32 am

Originally posted by necrosis215
If we were to be exact, NONE of the NWA champions are connected to that belt because it's a replica :P but we're talking about representation I know.

necrosis215


You sure it's a replica? I read that's it's the original, but with a facelift.
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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/11 Wed 2:36 am

Originally posted by Americancyco
Dan I think you're missing my point.  The WWE is not costing the NWA any money.  They are not claiming a title they don't own and even if the claimed their new title (triple H's) was conected to the NWA title I still don't see what the NWA would get from sueing them.

They aren't gonna get any money from the WWE because the WWE isn't hurting the NWA in anyway to cost it money (at least not in any way the NWA can prove).  The most the NWA could ever hope for is a judge to say "Bad WWE stop making such claims.  Stop making people think your new title is the same as the NWA title, without ever mentioning the name."

What this would cost the NWA in court fees is not even close to what they would get out of it should they win the case.

As for what value I think the NWA name has, wasn't the point.  The point was WCW was playing off the WWF name clearly and no one can argue the value of the WWF name at the time of the case.  A lot of people could argue the value of the NWA name at this time.  The WWF needed to prove that WCW was making money off of the WWF name in an illegal way.  The NWA would have to do the same thing, which it could never do.

But then again this is pro wrestling and name me one promoter that hasn't lied, mislead the fans or twisted the truth to fit himself and his group.


I understand your point of view. Nonetheless, I still disagree with you.
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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/11 Wed 2:53 am

Oh, and Re: History piece on Confidential

Did anyone see them hyping the show on RAW last night? On Flair's pic (which was taken after he beat Vader at Starrcade 93), they slyly managed to take out the old generic WCW title belt he was wearing and replaced it with a cheap looking visual of Big Goldy (which was actually held by Rude at the time).

Why didn't they just use a REAL still of him with that belt? It's not like they don't have tons and tons of them.
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Postby JustS2pendous » 2002/09/11 Wed 3:46 am

Did they really do that, that it is really lame. they always use that footage of Flair at Starrdcade 93.
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Postby Luds » 2002/09/11 Wed 7:48 am

Hey Dan, where's the pick that you're talking about? where is it posted? I'd love to see that...
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Postby Americancyco » 2002/09/11 Wed 3:53 pm

No I missed that, and I agree they have tons of pics why alter one? But then again that WCW belt was hidious, can you really blame them?

That's almost as bad as when Ric Flair was walking around the WWF with one of the Tag Team titles as his "real world heavyweight title"
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/11 Wed 5:03 pm

Yeah, Dan, I'm pretty sure. It was posted in great deatil the history of the actual belt on the oldschool-wrestling site. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

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Postby TJ Vermeer » 2002/09/13 Fri 1:56 am

The belt is NO replica! It's the original Big Gold belt. The reason why it looks different, is because WCW had the belt replated...
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Postby Rex Idol » 2002/09/13 Fri 12:29 pm

There were two big gold belts though. I don't know which one they're currently using, but if you think back to the Hogan/Russo "shoot", Hogan took one with him, and they put the other one on Booker T.
Plus, wasn't one bent at the top?
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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/15 Sun 3:19 am

Just watched the so-called "history" piece.

What a big fat lying, heaping steaming pile of horsecrap. There you have it; WWE explicitly said that the NWA title morphed into/became the WCW title and totally infringed all over the intellectual property of another company (Pro Wrestling Organization, LLC, DBA the National Wrestling Alliance) by claiming that their so-called "world title" which was created completely out of thin air just a mere two weeks ago (as even attested to by one of their own columnists) has a direct lineage to said company's championship and is also the rightful heir to their history.

This is utter BS and I'm going to e-mail WWE right now and tell them exactly how much BS I think it is.
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/15 Sun 6:54 am

I been away a competition the past couple of days but here's the link to the history of the actual belt
<a href='http://pub39.ezboard.com/fwrestlingofyesteryear83488frm3.showMessage?topicID=282.topic' target='_blank'>http://pub39.ezboard.com/fwrestlingofyeste...picID=282.topic</a>

Hope this helps a couple of you.

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