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RAW's championship, a new championship!

RAW's championship, a new championship!

Postby TJ Vermeer » 2002/09/06 Fri 8:46 pm

According to an article on WWE.com, RAW's championship is a newly created World heavyweight championship! You can read the article by going to the address
<a href='http://www.wwe.com/news/commentary/brians/1171974' target='_blank'>http://www.wwe.com/news/commentary/brians/1171974</a> .

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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/06 Fri 11:11 pm

That's all fine and dandy, but if it is a "new" championship and they're not trying to link it to any other title, then why did Jim Ross bring up Brisco, Race, and Rhodes on RAW? Better yet, why did Jonathan Coachman even say that Triple H's title is the same one worn by Race?
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Postby TJ Vermeer » 2002/09/07 Sat 3:12 am

I think they wanna play it like it was the (Big Gold) title belt, which was worn by all these wrestlers, not the title itself. Of course we all know that isn't true, but still... In the RAW report on WWE.com they say the World title is the former WCW championship, but I believe they ment to say the former WCW championship belt!

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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/07 Sat 5:11 am

Originally posted by TJ Vermeer
I think they wanna play it like it was the (Big Gold) title belt, which was worn by all these wrestlers, not the title itself. Of course we all know that isn't true, but still... In the RAW report on WWE.com they say the World title is the former WCW championship, but I believe they ment to say the former WCW championship belt!

TJ Vermeer


Even if they were just referring to the belt, they're still using it as a way to manipulate and insinuate to the audience that there's a historical connection between Triple H's "World title" and the NWA World title. You even said so yourself: Jack Brisco and Harley Race held the Dome Globe, not Big Goldy. If they never held that particular belt itself, then what's the significance in mentioning their names?, UNLESS you're trying to drive the point home that you consider the terms "belt" and "title" to be interchangeable, and therefore, the championship currently worn by Triple H is the exact same championship worn by those other individuals.

Nothing has changed. They're still playing the exact same game they did last year: NWA title = WCW (now "World") title. I just wonder how long it'll be this time around before they bring up the 1905 reference?
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/07 Sat 9:58 am

Let me start of with quotes from the report:

And so we witnessed the creation of a brand new World Heavyweight Championship -- brought into being completely out of the blue.


This proves that the title is completely new.

Ironically, it was the first new World Heavyweight Title to be created since the WCW Championship came into being in 1991. Hopefully, this one will have more longevity, despite being represented by the same 15 pounds of gold.


This proves that they are only recognising the same belt.

IMO - they are making references to all the NWA guys because they are trying to play the fans - KAYFABE
This title is a completely new title (lineage wise) but WWE are playing it off through the belt back to the NWA days and then switching to the lineage of the NWA title. All rather confusing but this IS a new title.

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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/07 Sat 4:44 pm

Originally posted by necrosis215
IMO - they are making references to all the NWA guys because they are trying to play the fans - [B]KAYFABE
This title is a completely new title (lineage wise) but WWE are playing it off through the belt back to the NWA days and then switching to the lineage of the NWA title. All rather confusing but this IS a new title.[/B]


THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!! They're deliberately TRYING to create confusion!

It doesn't matter what they say on their website. If you're bringing up old NWA champions like Jack Brisco, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, etc., you WANT and are PUSHING the fans to believe that there's a connection between the two titles. You're cashing in on the NWA trademark and title history to make Triple H's "championship" seem more important and prestigious than it really is. Not only is that a 100% lie (whether it's just kayfabe or not), it's also illegal.

That's what the phrase "confusion in the marketplace" means. It's when one company illegally infringes upon the trademark of another company and uses it to promote either themselves or a product as something it's not. That's EXACTLY what WWE is doing by claiming that the RAW World title (which is supposedly a "new" championship) can be traced back through the NWA title, which is the intellectual property of a completely different company.

If Pro Wrestling Organization, LLC (the NWA) so desires, they can sue WWE for doing this. And if they DO sue (which I hope they do), then make no mistake about it, they WILL win.
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Postby Americancyco » 2002/09/08 Sun 7:57 pm

Ok now maybe I missed it but I didn't hear Jim Ross say that title around Triple H's waist is the same title worn by Brisco, Race ect...

But even so, what would the NWA gain by sueing? I must have missed where the WWE claimed it was the NWA title. That was the main point of the WCW lawsuit, was to stop WCW from advertising the NWA title because it wasn't the NWA title.

I still don't see where the WWE claimed it is the same title, I just heard them name former world champions and say that Triple H was on the same level. I know I didn't hear the WWE say it WAS the NWA title so I don't really see what the NWA can sue for or what they hope to gain if they do.
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/08 Sun 8:22 pm

If the WWE never said that HHH's belt and the NWA Title were of the same lineage or even the same title then we can say for certain that this is a completely new title (lineage).

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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/08 Sun 10:21 pm

Originally posted by Americancyco
Ok now maybe I missed it but I didn't hear Jim Ross say that title around Triple H's waist is the same title worn by Brisco, Race ect...

But even so, what would the NWA gain by sueing?  I must have missed where the WWE claimed it was the NWA title.  That was the main point of the WCW lawsuit, was to stop WCW from advertising the NWA title because it wasn't the NWA title.

I still don't see where the WWE claimed it is the same title, I just heard them name former world champions and say that Triple H was on the same level.  I know I didn't hear the WWE say it WAS the NWA title so I don't really see what the NWA can sue for or what they hope to gain if they do.


Yesterday I was watching WWE Bottom Line (the recap show for RAW). Do you know what Johnathan Coachman said? He said the championship currently worn by Triple H was THE SAME CHAMPIONSHIP worn in the past by Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, and Ric Flair. Is that enough evidence for you?

They don't have to come out and say word for word "it's the NWA title" or "it USED to be the NWA title". If they're mentioning the names of a bunch of former NWA champions in the same breath as Triple H and saying that they all wore the same championship, it's obviously being implied that the title is/was the NWA title.

Go back years ago to when Eric Bischoff first brought Hall and Nash into WCW and they were saying "we want a war", "we're taking over", we this, we that, etc. They never mentioned the letters "WWF", or the names "Razor Ramon" and "Diesel". But it was clearly being implied by WCW that that's where they were from and that's who they were. What happend? Vince took them to court and sued them for infringing on his trademarks and creating confusion in the marketplace. This issue is no different, except this time, WWE is the perpetrator and not the victim.

As far as the NWA suing WCW goes, yes, they took them to court and won when they continued to advertise the Flair-Rude match as an "NWA" title bout even after they pulled their membership. But what did WCW do after that? They deliberately violated the courts ruling by asserting from 1996 until their death last year that the WCW World title was held by people like Lou Thesz, Harley Race, Jack Brisco, the Funks, etc. etc. I even heard Tony Schiavone say on WCW Saturday Night once that WCW "used to be the NWA". And this was just three years after he himself read a legal disclaimer on that very same show stating that WCW no longer had anything to do with the NWA and that the titles were completely separate.

Today, WWE is doing the exact same thing. They're not being as blatant as Schiavone or WCW by actually coming out and explicitly saying that the world title held by Triple H "used to be the NWA" title, but by them claiming it's the SAME title worn by Race, Rhodes, etc., they might as well.
Either way, it's illegal and they should have their butt sued.
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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/08 Sun 10:45 pm

Oh and BTW, I forgot to mention that next week on Confidential, they're going to be airing a piece on the "history" of Triple H's World championship and will be looking back at all the greats who have held it. Okerlund made reference to Flair, Sting, Hogan, and Goldberg (all former WCW champions) by name, but there's no question in my mind that they're going to be using this as their golden opportunity to further spread their lies and false propaganda about the NWA and REALLY "educate" (i.e. brainwash) all the marks who don't know any better.
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Postby TJ Vermeer » 2002/09/09 Mon 10:51 am

This is what WWE wrote me:

"Dear TJ,
Officially, its a new championship. However, its REPRESENTED by the same belt that once represented the WCW World title (and the NWA World title before that). But the championship itself is new. Hope that clears things up.

-Brian"

BTW, I replied: "I didn't know Lou Thesz and Harley Race ever wore the Big Gold belt.. LOL" Duh~!
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/09 Mon 1:29 pm

So WWE say that it's a new lineage but that the title belt is connected to the NWA Title. THAT'S ALL!!! It is a separate lineage with the NWA belt (inanimate object)

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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2002/09/09 Mon 2:33 pm

Originally posted by necrosis215
So WWE say that it's a new [b]lineage but that the title belt is connected to the NWA Title. THAT'S ALL!!! It is a separate lineage with the NWA belt (inanimate object)

necrosis215 [/B]


The Big Gold belt has represented the following titles over the years:

NWA World heavyweight title (1986-91)

WCW World heavyweight title (1991, concurrently with NWA title)

NWA World heavyweight title (1992-93)

WCW Int'l World title (1993-94)

WCW World heavyweight title (1994-2001)

"World haavyweight title" (2001)

WWF Undisputed title (2001-02, used concurrently with WWF belt)

"World heavyweight title" (presently)


If they want to say that Triple H currently wears the same belt that was once worn by Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Sting, and whoever else, then that's fine. It's 100% true. But when you start throwing people like Jack Brisco and Harley Race into the mix, then that's where you have a problem because you're starting to equate belts with being actual championships themselves (which they are NOT).

Johnathan Coachman clearly said that the same CHAMPIONSHIP worn by Triple H was worn by Harley Race. Race never even wore the same belt as Triple H, much less the same championship.

That's what I'm getting at. They're subtly using the Big Gold belt as a means to shift over to the actual championship itself, at least on TV. There's a connection between the two titles insofar as they were REPRESENTED by the same belt, as you yourself said, but by bringing up the names of Brisco and Race (who both wore the Dome Globe and not the Big Gold), to me, they're clearly using the terms "belt" and "championship" as meaning the same thing to imply that there's an actual sharing of lineage.

At any rate though, I guess we'll find out for certain what their true intentions are when they air their piece this Saturday night.
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Postby necrosis215 » 2002/09/09 Mon 4:30 pm

I'll wait in anticipation :)

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Postby Americancyco » 2002/09/09 Mon 5:19 pm

Ok I will agree with you on the name dropping of Harley race and Race only. Since he is the only name clearly mentioned as wearing the title belt that didn't.

But all the WWF has to say is this belt once represented the NWA title which was held by Race, blah blah blah and they are covered.

As far as WWF sueing WCW over Hall & Nash there is a major differance. WCW was playing off of WWF intellicetual <sp> property which was clearly making them money. If the WWF plays off the NWA it's not going to make them any extra money. the NWA name doesn't have any rewal clout, like the WWF name did/does back when they sued WCW. The NWA name isn't worth anything to the WWF.
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