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Title Changes That Didn't Happen

Pre-1990 topics only.

Postby samoth » 2002/04/27 Sat 9:56 am

The Hardcore title is worthless anyway, but it gives us the excitement of title changes without devaluing a belt that actually means something. Plus, it creates storylines for people to feud over, so I'm all for it.
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Postby Tradewynd » 2002/04/27 Sat 10:47 am

When a meaningful title changes hands it is exciting. I find 10 title changes in a single show more along the lines of disgusting.
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Postby dugong2100 » 2002/05/09 Thu 8:38 pm

the wwftitlehistory.com website says that the wwf(wwe whatever) tag team titles originated in 1957 with dr jerry and eddie graham, which i thought was the NWA united states tag team title, which was abandoned in 1967, but somehow they manage to connect it to the wwwf international tag team title, which supposedly then unified with the wwwf tag team title. if anyone knows the logic behind this, id like to hear it
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Postby Peru-Yakuza » 2002/05/09 Thu 11:44 pm

Originally posted by dugong2100
the wwftitlehistory.com website says that the wwf(wwe whatever) tag team titles originated in 1957 with dr jerry and eddie graham, which i thought was the NWA united states tag team title, which was abandoned in 1967, but somehow they manage to connect it to the wwwf international tag team title, which supposedly then unified with the wwwf tag team title. if anyone knows the logic behind this, id like to hear it


Bruno Sammartino vacated his share of the US tag title because he couldn't defend both it as well as the WWWF World heavyweight title on a single show. There was no tag title contention during 1968, then the WWWF renamed the tag title the "International" tag title and gave it to Professor Tanaka and Mitsu Arakawa. Then the International title was abandoned when the Mongols jumped out of the WWWF briefly, during which the promotion refused to recognize them as champions anymore. They now made a "World" tag title which was won by Luke Graham and Tarzan Tyler in a tournament, however the Mongols returned later with the old International belts, they had a unification match and Graham and Tyler won, becoming undisputed tag champions.

The point is, because it was a company title, the WWF tag title's name doesn't matter - US, International, or World, it's still the same title :)
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Postby Peru-Yakuza » 2002/05/09 Thu 11:54 pm

Originally posted by Tradewynd
When a meaningful title changes hands it is exciting.  I find 10 title changes in a single show more along the lines of disgusting.


Then are you staying away from the DDT promotion?:rolleyes:
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Postby The Great HORROR » 2002/05/23 Thu 9:45 am

Heres some:-


Chuck Palumbo beat Booker T for the WCW Title in July 2000, but Commisoner Cat over ruled it for some reason.

Kidman beat TAFKAPI for the Crusier Title in March 2000, TAFKAPI then won it back two days later, but WCW never said a word about them.

The WWE Hardcore Title changed hands like 5 times on May 5th at the UK PPV, Booker T, Justin Crediable, Crash, Booker T and then Steven Richards all held the belt in that night.
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Postby Hijo de Carlos » 2002/05/23 Thu 11:15 am

Here's a couple:

(All Japan) NWA United National title:

Ted DiBiase 83/10/14 *
Wins 12-man tournament held across the US, winning the final by forfeit over Jerry Lawler.
Michael Hayes 84/01/28 Athens, GA *

According to the Will and Duncan book, neither of these actually happened.
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Postby Hisaharu Tanabe » 2002/05/23 Thu 12:18 pm

If you look at the title history lists on this site, most of them with an asterisk at either the date or location are phantom changes, including the UN title changes Hijo de Carlos mentioned.
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Postby Peru-Yakuza » 2002/06/07 Fri 6:45 pm

According to <a href='http://members.cool.ne.jp/~sodapop/alljapan/senseki/un.html' target='_blank'>All-Japan Chips</a> :
On 10/14/83, Ted DiBiase was billed as champion and defended the title (1st defense) against Genichiro Tenryu in Sasebo, Nagasaki (15:59).

This list also contains a "registered" title switch to Michael Hayes on Athens, GA at the Athens Arena. Hayes pins DiBiase after a lariat, according to it (15:07).

Hisa please read this and correct me if I'm wrong...
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Postby Hisaharu Tanabe » 2002/06/07 Fri 7:29 pm

I remember watching DiBiase vs. Tenryu on TV. DiBiase was billed as having defeated Jerry Lawler by forfeit for the title previously vacated by Tsuruta. It was of course a fictitious tournament final between DiBiase and Lawler.

In Japan, Michael Hayes was billed as winning the title from DiBiase in Athens while in Dallas, Hayes was billed as defeating Tenryu in Japan (according to "Wrestling Title Histories").
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I'll toss a couple in

Postby edgehead1984 » 2003/07/23 Wed 4:07 pm

RVD's incident with The Undertaker last year, could considered a title change that didn't happen.

At Starrcade 1987 (yes the one with the horrible Garvin-Flair cage match with an incomprehensible ending) Anderson & Blanchard lost the titles to The Road Warriors but the title were given back to Anderson & Blanchard.
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Postby glc » 2003/08/27 Wed 8:49 pm

Benny,

'Phantom' title switches (matches that never really happened) have been around for as long as there has been 'worked' matches. A classic example comes immediately to mind: May 1987 - Rick Rude & Manny Fernandez hold the NWA tag belts, when Rude jumps unannounced to the WWF. Scrambling, the NWA digs up up an old tape of the Rock & Roll Express defeating Rude & Fernandez in a non-title bout MONTHS earlier in SC, and passes it off as a legit title switch from Spokane, WA. They weren't running house shows in Spokane at the time!!! Even better was the time just a couple of years later when The Freebirds (I believe) lost the belts at a TV taping a few days BEFORE they won them at a PPV.

Dropping the belts 'around the horn' was also pretty common. The way this worked was the promoters would book the same championship match in each of the cities they booked. For the next week (or month, depending on schedule) the champ would lose the belt in every town. Then, when that had run its course, there would be announcement made on TV about the switch - with no mention of the city it took place in, of course. And everybody who had seen the title change thought they were referring to their town.

Here's a couple of 'legit' changes that were pretty much ignored at the time. About 1979 or so, Bob Backlund, on a tour of Japan, drops the WWF title to Tatsumi Fujinami. This was a HUGE deal over there - here, wasn't even mentioned. Which ticked the Japanese arm of the WWF off BIG TIME, as this was supposed to be a fully recognized switch, with Fujinami dropping the belt back to Backlund on the next MSG card. I believe Fujinami even defended the belt. Anyway, comes the MSG card, and, with the locals having NO idea at all what's going on, the referee comes out with belt before the match. This way, depending on who was doing the commentary, either man could be referred to as champion. Fujinami, of course, does the job and the American public is none the wiser. BTW, as you may imagine, there were major behind-the-scenes political ramifications.

Another occurred around 1990 or 91. The NWA/WCW went on a tour of Australia and New Zealand. It was on this tour that Champ Ric Flair would drop the belt and regain it a few nights later (similar to the Harley Race/Shohei Baba switches in Japan in the late 70's.) For the life of me, I can't remember who won (and subsequently lost) the belt, but WCW TV completely ignored this switch for years. Until, conveniently enough, it was time for Flair to break Race's record for title reigns.
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Postby Dan Poutsma » 2003/08/28 Thu 12:25 am

[QUOTE=glc]Here's a couple of 'legit' changes that were pretty much ignored at the time. About 1979 or so, Bob Backlund, on a tour of Japan, drops the WWF title to Tatsumi Fujinami. This was a HUGE deal over there - here, wasn't even mentioned. Which ticked the Japanese arm of the WWF off BIG TIME, as this was supposed to be a fully recognized switch, with Fujinami dropping the belt back to Backlund on the next MSG card. I believe Fujinami even defended the belt. Anyway, comes the MSG card, and, with the locals having NO idea at all what's going on, the referee comes out with belt before the match. This way, depending on who was doing the commentary, either man could be referred to as champion. Fujinami, of course, does the job and the American public is none the wiser. BTW, as you may imagine, there were major behind-the-scenes political ramifications.[/b][/quote]

It was actually Antonio Inoki who beat Backlund for the title, not Fujinami. The rematch had some controversy, and it ultimately resulted in Backlund coming back to the States and defeating Bobby Duncum in a match to reclaim the championship, with the fans not having the slightest idea what had happend in Japan. At any rate though, the WWF/E now officially recognizes Inoki as a former champion. And btw, the alleged "Japanese arm" of the WWF was New Japan Pro Wrestling, as they had NJPW bigwig Hisashi Shinma playing the role of the WWF's figurehead president at the time, ala Jack Tunney.

Sounds to me like you might possibly be confusing that event to some extent with the match between Fujinami and Flair at the WCW/Japan Supershow in 1991. Following the screwy finish, Fujinami was recognized in Japan as the new NWA champ, while Flair continued to be recognized in the States as the WCW champ, with no distinction being made between the two titles at all. It was finally settled at the first SuperBrawl when Flair beat Fujinami in a rematch to end the dispute over who the legitimate champion really was.

Another occurred around 1990 or 91. The NWA/WCW went on a tour of Australia and New Zealand. It was on this tour that Champ Ric Flair would drop the belt and regain it a few nights later (similar to the Harley Race/Shohei Baba switches in Japan in the late 70's.) For the life of me, I can't remember who won (and subsequently lost) the belt, but WCW TV completely ignored this switch for years. Until, conveniently enough, it was time for Flair to break Race's record for title reigns.

I believe you're thinking of the switches Flair and Race did in New Zealand and Singapore in March 1984. Both shows were promoted by Steve Rickard, and the switches were done without the authorization of the NWA Board of Directors, hence the non-recognition. It wasn't until sometime in the 1990s that the NWA eventually did decide to recognize them as "official".
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Postby nwachamp » 2003/12/08 Mon 11:40 pm

[QUOTE=clawmaster]Getting back to the original topic here.

The AWA tag title change where Scott Hall and Curt Hennig beat Jimmy Garvin and Steve Regal was a phantom switch.

The match where Hall and Hennig beat Regal and Garvin was a real match held in Albuquerque, as I was there in attendance. I posted this previously on a thread at the Kayfabe Memories message board.

John
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