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RAW's championship, a new championship!

Postby CyclopsScott » 2003/05/22 Thu 10:19 am

Originally posted by DaKrow52
Actually, WCW had the original "casted" by the WCW prop guy, and they used the mold to make the "Hulk Hogan Memorial Belt". They had the cast plated, then put on leather by the WCW prop guy. Doing this was cheaper than having another Big Gold made the standard way (which is a long process), and WCW was seriously hurtin for money at that point, so they couldnt justify spending another $2K (which is basically a standard price for a belt the size of the Big gold) on a title belt.


If you look in the Hulkamania special magazine the WWE released in 2002, you can see Hogan with all sorts of belts in the centre pullout, and included there is (a version of?) the Big Gold Belt, complete with "JEFF JARRETT" on the nameplate!
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World Title

Postby bmf_51 » 2003/05/28 Wed 12:47 am

I think the WWE could've made a better claim to a lineage with the WCW title if they had awarded their title to Chris Jericho instead of Triple H. Jericho was truely the last holder of the TITLE. Triple H was simply the last person to wear the Big Gold belt prior to its reinstatement on RAW.

To me, that would've been better. The only reason the WWE granted the title to Triple H was because they knew he puts more butts in seats than any other wrestler, not because he wore the belt over his shoulder for two weeks. Hence, I don't see how giving the title to Jericho and then having him drop it to Triple H a month later could've hurt the WWE. If they had done that in the first place, then maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Postby RoaringElbow25 » 2003/05/28 Wed 8:49 am

that doesnt make sense, as much as we hate it their was a reason they gave it to HHH, they didnt just hand it to anyone, they gave it to Trips because he was the #1 contender for the undisputed title at the time but Brock chose not to appear on Raw, so HHH, being the top ranked wrestler on Mondays earned the title that way, with the win 2 weeks earlier over the Undertaker in the #1 contenders match, you must not've been watching at that time
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Postby bmf_51 » 2003/05/28 Wed 12:21 pm

I know he was the #1 Contender but it still would made more sense to give it to the last champion. At least then they would have had something to back up their claim that this title has a connection to the history of the WCW title. Then, like I said, the WWE could have had a match at the next PPV (I believe it was Unforgiven) between Jericho and Triple H.

Or, they could have announced a match at Unforgiven to fill the vacancy, between Triple H (the top wrestler on RAW) and the winner of a battle royal envolving all the former WCW champions that were on RAW at that time (Flair, Jericho, Booker T). That might have cleared up this whole mess.

Which ever way you see it, I think it would be interesting if the WWE bought this whole dispute into a storyline. Stephanie could say that the World Championship on RAW has no lineage to the NWA or WCW titles and therefore isn't really a World Title. Then Bischoff could say that when Brock Lesnar left for Smackdown with the WWE title, he left the WCW part of his championship and that gave Bischoff the freedom to give that portion of the World Title to whom ever he wanted. The dispute would go back and forth, setting up a Smackdown vs. RAW match at the Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, Summerslam, or Suvivor Series. If Smackdown wins, then Stephanie owns the rights to the WCW name and the RAW title just becomes a generic form of the World Title with no real lineage. But if RAW wins, then Bischoff is free to use the WCW name (along with its title lineage) any way he wants.
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Postby CyclopsScott » 2003/06/07 Sat 11:17 pm

Triple H won the Undisputed Championship, and carried both title belts until April 1, 2002 when Flair presented him with the new single belt. I see him as the last man to win the WCW World title before it was completely unified (on April 1) so his getting it in September was no surprise to me. Plus he did have that win over Undertaker the week prior. (shrug)
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Postby bmf_51 » 2003/06/08 Sun 11:17 am

Again, it depends on how you interpret it. If you consider "belt" and "title" as being synonymous, then, yes, Triple H was the last holder of the title. But, like most people, I think title and belt have two different meanings and I think that Jericho was the last WCW champion. When Triple H was carrying around the title, it was just a prop.
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Postby RoaringElbow25 » 2003/06/09 Mon 10:00 am

What was so different about Jericho and HHH that made Jericho's a championship belt and HHH's a prop? That doesnt make any sense, they both won them through a match when they defeated the pervious champion. this is just asanine, it sounds to me like your just looking for any cheap excuse to argue that Jericho shoulda been champ. If it was a title to jericho, and HHH beat him for it, it should be a championship for him too, i dont get how it turnmed into just a prop
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Postby bmf_51 » 2003/06/09 Mon 10:15 am

What I'm saying is that when the Undisputed Champion carried two belts, they were just props because they (Triple H AND Jericho) really only held one title: the Undisputed Title. Triple H never held the WCW title; he just possessed the belt at the time he was undisputed champion. All I'm saying is that Jericho was the last person to be in possession of the belt and, at the same time, be touted the WCW champion. When Jericho beat Austin at Armageddon in 2001, that was the end of the WCW title. Every undisputed champion who had the belt afterward were using it as a prop because the title it represented was dead.
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Postby Luds » 2003/06/09 Mon 10:56 am

I agree... However, the way our good friend trip sees it, he is the only contender so didn't need a match against Jericho or anything like that to be named champion of the RAW brand ;)
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Postby RoaringElbow25 » 2003/06/11 Wed 1:19 pm

Granted but the WCW Title was a part of the undisputed title and if it werent, the title wouldnt of been "undisputed"


and how come no one made a big deal when Mankind was awarded the hardcore title, but everyone one bashes HHH for being awarded the World title, ok I can see how its different because the World title is, well a World Title, but I also think ppl are making it worse than it is becauyse they dont like HHH and his politics, and I dont either, but at the time, he was the best guy to give it to
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Postby SpirituXBomba » 2003/06/11 Wed 2:21 pm

True, but i think that most of you are forgetting prior to the unification, Dwayne Johnson was the Very Last man to be called the WCW World Champion. After Defeating Jericho to Regain the title, It was again Called the World Heavyweight TitleJust Like how Rick Rude after beating Sting, was The Last NWA champion to hold the Big Gold, prior to the belt becoming the WCW International World Heavyweight title, as the Company(WCW) withdrew from The NWA in 1993.
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Postby CyclopsScott » 2003/06/12 Thu 10:58 am

Originally posted by bmf_51
What I'm saying is that when the Undisputed Champion carried two belts, they were just props because they (Triple H AND Jericho) really only held one title: the Undisputed Title. Triple H never held the WCW title; he just possessed the belt at the time he was undisputed champion.


Triple H carried the two belts from March 17th when he won them at WrestleMania X8 until that April 1 Raw. They represented the Undisputed title, true, but the way I see it, Jericho was the last to win before unification, but its like the boxing unified titles: only the WWF Undisputed title never had any split defenses.
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Postby CyclopsScott » 2003/06/12 Thu 11:00 am

Originally posted by SpirituXBomba
True, but i think that most of you are forgetting prior to the unification, Dwayne Johnson was the Very Last man to be called the WCW World Champion.


That's right, Rock won the WCW title, and on Raw on Nov 19/01 in Charlotte Vince McMahon came out and said it would from that point on be known simply as the 'World Championship' (which when Bischoff 'brought it back' adding 'Heavyweight' to the name made me happy to see it return, but irked me cause it was a new name :P )
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Postby bmf_51 » 2003/06/12 Thu 11:10 am

Originally posted by CyclopsScott
...it would from that point on be known simply as the 'World Championship' (which when Bischoff 'brought it back' adding 'Heavyweight' to the name made me happy to see it return, but irked me cause it was a new name  :P )


I thought the 'heavyweight' portion of the name was implied.
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Postby CyclopsScott » 2003/06/13 Fri 9:23 am

Originally posted by bmf_51
I thought the 'heavyweight' portion of the name was implied.


Well, when Rock had it before it was unified it lacked the 'Heavyweight' part of the name (just like the WWE/WWF title is never referred on air as the WWE World title, just the WWE title) but when Bischoff did his thing, he put 'Heavyweight' back in the name and they used it ever since.
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